Thank you for writing this article. My real problem with the situation is exactly thatthe wines are a good/great/phenomenal deal why do they feel the need to embellish at best or stack the deck at worst? Last Updated July 12, 2020 at 9:07 PM EDT (2.4 years ago) If you purchased wines, like we did, from WTSO between March 15, 2010, and November 1, 2016, you might be entitled to receive credits towards a purchase of wine from a proposed class action settlement. Just realized that if I go into the My Cellar section, I can re-order a good number of wines I had in the past apparently, those wines are still available. If there is a problem, however slight, they refund immediately and tell me to do what I like with the unopened wineno need to send it back. Sharp sticks to the eye are almost always bad, but WTSO is usually very good. Im more concerned about the perception of the source and perhaps quality of the offering that are really custom bulk wines posing as discounted, premium wines, especially for less educated buyers. The total amount set aside for credits is $10.8 million. A recent comment on the aforementioned post on flash sites, however, caused me to delve a little more deeply into the case that has been brought against WTSO. Great info. Shadowood labeled wines that Defendant Newman recommends different food pairings for these wines even though they are, on information and belief, identical except for labeling and pricing and made by the same producer.. While I advise them all to adopt the same level of due diligence that I attempt to demonstrate, I know for a fact that they usually do not. If true, while perhaps not illegal it is certainly shady and calls into question the integrity of the company, no? And I only need to order two at a time to get free shipping. Luckily, I never bought any of the other brands that were listed above. They're a juggernaut of wine liquidation and full disclosure, I've purchased some European offerings from their website. While I still remain a happy customer of WTSO, there were nonetheless some disturbing allegations: Personally, none of these allegations really affect me all that much since frankly, I diligently research wines before purchasing them. Ive been purchasing wine from WTSO since 2009, and am very satisfy with almost all my purchases. I was in Paris and I purchased wine there that was inflated in pricing. They have some nice wines among the chaff. I normally stay away from the Jonathan Newman reviewed wines because hes an unknown and his reviews are always unaccompanied by other reviews. Under the preliminary settlement, which covered sales between March 15, 2010, and November, 1, 2016, WTSO agreed to offer credits for purchases to those in the class. (100+ posts! The Plaintiffs argue that the actual retail price is $32 and thus only a 12% savings. Pingback: What We Have Been Drinking3/6/17 | the drunken cyclist. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that it is just their way of respecting the time-honored tradition of obscuring the true source of the over-produced stock that Newman acquires. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. I continue to buy from WTSO and find their information about the wines to be pretty good, and I realize that the pricing is subjective. If the government wont protect people from the rapacious business practice of fraudsters then attorneys are our only line of defense. Most of the prices are inflated from what I have been able to source. WTSO has no competition in my opinion. If the government sued businesses for fraud then a lot less lawsuits would be needed, but out govt cannot seem to pursue any fraud cases. Until then LB will need to do. Who's Eligible Class Members include all U.S. residents who made at least one wine purchase from WTSO.com between March 15, 2010 and Nov. 1, 2016. That is one of the problems with crowd sourced reviewsuntil there are several scores (I would say at least a dozen from different users), one score can easily skew the overall. Too bad they dont ship to Canada. What gives me pause is selling the bulk wine with custom winery names that dont exist outside of WTSO. You may be eligible for a potential award from the Wines Til Sold Out Original PriceClass Action Lawsuit! That is why I steer clear from those offers and only consider actual brands. I was in California and purchased wine there that was inflated in pricing. Read More VISIT SITE All Offers 37 Code 7 Deal 30 Having met the former chairman on a couple of occasions, though, I do not trust his assessments of wines on WTSO. The difference will go to the fund for class members. figure out what wine opener is best for you with our wine experts!. Thank you for your research and comments. But at least one class member opposes the settlement. OhmygodPart 1 On the Plane? But it makes me wonder how many other hot internet deals arent so hot. No one makes anyone buy the wine from them so hard to throw blame at the company for business practices that help them sell.I do appreciate them being taken to task of they are in fact overstating prices etc but I will continue to use them. WTSO does not admit to any liability or wrongdoing.. From the WTSO web site: *Comparable Price means the price at which the same or a similar wine with the same primary grape varietal and appellation or sub-appellation has been offered for sale to consumers directly by a producing winery or through retailers. So, I get $115 that I will probably never use, and the lawyers get $1.8 million even though they may have never purchased a single bottle from Wines Til Sold Out. Heck, how come restaurants can charge 10 times what the bottle costs? WTSO (Wines 'Til Sold Out) Jun 2003 - Present19 years 9 months pennsauken DIRECTOR OF CUSTOMER SERVICE wines Apr 2007 - Jun 202215 years 3 months Greater Philadelphia Area Exectutive. Originally, I would have been eligible to receive half of that reward as a cash payment since WTSO could not (at the time) ship to Texas. Viansa Winery He used that leverage to the benefit of the poor sops who have to rely on their state government to decide what wine they have to choose from. Then I have to honestly say that I really like WTSO and got a lot of great wines from them over the years, so Im happy to continue buying from them. It is by far the best wine site Ive seen on the web. This past January (2018), I published an update about the lawsuit and it is now thethird most visited post on this site. Here is the synopsis of the case on the law firms (Giskan, Solotaroff, & Anderson)website (I hope I dont get sued for cutting and pasting it here). Talk about inflation and lack of selection and would never buy at those stores. So may be we need to start suing producers for not been able to taste an advertised raspberries or violets in the wine, when the back label clearly states that they should be in that wine? Wines Til Sold Out denies all acts of allegations, however, they have agreed to settle the class-action lawsuit in order to avoid the further risk and cost of ongoing litigation. That has since changed, so the cash is no longer an option. Yes, many of the wines are not available elsewhere and as such are hard to compare, but nearly half have a bona fide WA/WS/WE rating that I feel I can trust. Consumers suing Wines Til Sold Out (WTSO) are hoping they can convince the judge hearing their case to change her mind. Curlew Vineyards According to the lawsuit, Wines Til Sold Out engaged in a pricing scheme that tricked customers into believing the items were being offered at a discounted price. Her father was born in Wales to a middle-class family. That was the discount that Wines Til Sold Out offered recently on 2006 Chateau Angelus, a top Bordeaux that was being sold for nearly $100 off its original price of about $250. The only part to add is that I met Jonathan on several occasions and even though we share an alma mater (and a good friend of mine was Newmans brothers roommate), he came off every time as, well, a complete ass. Storm Chaser I have no idea why they included that in the complaint. Because this Court is left with so many unanswered questions here, the parties Joint Motion for Final Settlement Approval will be denied, she wrote in April. A Lawsuit Against Wines 'Til Sold Out (WTSO), an Update Posted on January 3, 2018 by the drunken cyclist In this space back in May, 2016, I published an article about the recently filed lawsuit against the online flash seller, Wines 'Til Sold Out (WTSO). Im in total agreement with most of you. Many people (like my father-in-law) will look at that and think they are getting an incredible deal, but really they are just getting some bulk wine that was purchased and bottled by Mr. Newman or one of his associates. Borden's decision to file for bankruptcy was, in part, because it can't afford its current debt load and also can't meet its employee pension obligations. Agree with all the caveats. Any time I see Jonathan Newman as the sole reviewer, I never buy the wine. This post may contain references to products from our partners. I had about 15 cases of Spanish, French, and Italian red being held in their free a/cd storage unit through the hot weather and slated for delivery Oct 31st. Third, I have had a few personal interactions with Mr. Newman (and have heard many additional stories about him) that have caused me to be somewhat hesitant. MOORESTOWN, N.J., Aug. 2, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- Today, Wines 'Til Sold Out (WTSO) debuts a new kind of . Thanks for your input! Wines 'Til Sold Out - WTSO is an online store selling wine & liquours. When I first learned of WTSO and then its connection to Jonathan Newman, I assumed that Mr. Newman took his experience, knowledge, and acquired contacts to continue doing what he was doing for the state of Pennsylvania, but now for his own benefit. Discover exclusive deals on Old & New World wines rated 95 points or higher https:// wtso.co/3RFNgxY All featured bottles are rated by wine pros like experts @Wine_Advocate. And, as I said, there are some deals to be had with that approach (although they seem more rare these days). But lets up it to $2.50 a bottleI have only purchased 424 bottles from them. Is there a full list of the WTSO house brands? But back to WTSO, Id certainly feel cheated if the same wines were getting imaginary winery labels slapped on them. I stopped buying from the site a few years ago, not because of any discontentment with the site, but rather since, frankly, I need more wine like I need a hole in the head. Anthony Nguyen, founder of HustlerMoneyBlog.com, has a passion for finding the best deals, bank promotions, credit card offers, cash back, points & miles, and everything in between. Some of their wines are terrific and now and then a few that I consider plonk. BestReviews is reader-supported and may earn an affiliate commission. For some reason, I trust Cellar Tracker FAR more than Vivino, but the latter seems to be the choice of those pesky millenials. Wines Til Sold Out Click to Rate or Add Salary Add Interview Add Benefits Glassdoor has 5 Wines Til Sold Out reviews submitted anonymously by Wines Til Sold Out employees. Until then, I will continue ordering from Last Bottle. They really do a nice job, my personal feelings of Jonathan Newman aside. by a New Jersey wine distributor, who was complaining that PA State Stores were selling certain wines cheaper retail than he was able to attain wholesale. When I lived in Philly, I would often get orders the next day, which was a nice benefit. That being said, what I find is that many, often hard to find small producers, many imports,some I often know are good bargains as they are small lots off priced and often desirable older vintages, not so available to buy in the retail market. Our society is screwed up and unfortunately plaintiff lawyers are about the only ones who hurt big businesses enough to make corporate fraud hurt the wrongdoers. Contact Anthony for media/advertising. So it is not entirely clear what the results of the lawsuit are for me personally, yet. I have bought from L.A. Wine Company and have never been dissatisfied. By the way, I have placed something over 300 orders with WTSO, typically ordering 5-15 times a month, but this doesnt stop me from decrying their fraud. A quick check with relatives in PA (my home state) verified that the experience of buying wine in the state had improved five-fold in a relatively short amount of time considering it was run by a state-owned monopoly. Youve confirmed my suspicions. While I have yet to get a bad wine from WTSO, some of them are nowhere near what I would expect from a 92 pointer. Welcome to Wines 'Til Sold Out! Im a certified wine educator, have done many wine programs and know well to research via wine searcher, other reviews to ascertain real valuations. State AGs, DOJ oppose controversial Wine 'Til Sold Out settlement ORGANIZATIONS IN THIS STORY By Michael McGrady Mar 2, 2018 CAMDEN, N.J. (Legal Newsline) - A controversial class action. When I choose a 93 or 94 average customer rating, the wine is almost always delicious. Our last-chance premium wines are all available at competitive prices. Some of my facts in the story may be inaccurate, it is how it came to me. But, if what they suggest can be proven true, that Newman knew he had the same wine under two different labels (and he would know since he provided the wines), but presented them as completely different wines (including different pairing suggestions), that is certainly shady. I like WTSO and have bought from them probably 50 times. I hardly buy wines now from any other place besides WTSO. leave to a few who did not get enough attention in their life to ruin it for those who did. I will often visit the winerys website and check out what the current vintage and price of the wine in question (WTSO often offers wines from past vintageswines that wineries are very interested in moving quickly for whatever reason). If at the end you ENJOYED the wine. I read through the complaint and these are the WTSO house brands theyve listed (please dont sue me): Mockingbird Hill Winery Browse our shop today to find a wide selection of high-end wines for sale. Reviewed in Feb 2016: WE 93pt. But a few months after the preliminary approval, 19 attorneys general and the Department of Justice, opposed the settlement, saying the deal fails to provide adequate remedy for the class members. I finally called WTSO because I didnt want my money back- I wanted my wine. Whether you are a returning member or coming across WTSO for the first time, you've come to the right online wine shop for flash wine sales that will change the way you shop for your wine. WTSO denies all allegations. Fairly new to WTSO and wines in general, I started researching why Newmans reviews seemed so far off from my perceptions. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The websitestated that the wine retails for $45, which would mean a 38% discount. (100+ posts! Im pretty sure you just wrote the plot for the next John Grisham novel. While that settlement did not obtain court approval, they have agreed to provide us the same credits we would have earned under the agreement provided we agree to release substantially the same claims that would have been released had the settlement been approved. OhmygodPart 1 On the Plane? Stella As I understand the story, the Governor reorganized the PLCB at some point, effectively demoting Mr. Newman subordinate to a politically connected appointee that was owed a favor. That model is fairly straightforward: the buyer (be it the PLCB or WTSO) agrees to buy the. I am enjoying the Domaine Besson Chablis Premier Cru 2018 from the Vaillons vineyard of Burgundy, France. WTSO is perhaps the original wine flash site. They offer a single wine at a time, at a discount* until it is sold out, when they then offer another wine. As quoted directly from the complaint: On information and belief, many of these wines offered on WTSO.com, albeit with different names, are in fact exactly the same wines as others offered on WTSO.com, but simply labeled differently., Again, from the complaint: On information and belief, many of the wines are in fact produced specifically and only for Defendants for sale on the WTSO.com website. 4 x 2013 Domaine Charles Sparr Riesling Schoenenbourg Alsace Grand Cru at $19.99. Thanks for the info. See my comment aboveI think they are finally cracking down on some of the larger violators of a law that was essentially written by the retailers. The bottle set an event record when it sold for $325,000 to J. Alan Kent Development, a real estate company just outside Houston. Some very valuable information here; thank youdrunken cyclist! If, however, the wine in question is not sold anywhere else, it is impossible to verify the actual retail price (which I will be the first to admit is somewhat arbitrary, but it does provide a reference of some sort). 3:19-cv-02192-CRB District Judge Charles R. Breyer, presiding. Never heard of this lawsuit, and having read what you posted here, I have to say that this is complete BS, same as 95% of the lawsuits in this country (sorry) in the end of the day, there will be no winners there except the lawyers. Hardly. I would love to hear your thoughts. About Me and This Blog; Contact; Policies; Samples; Wines. Simply put, for most bottles, there is a $0.20 credit. This lawyer is just an ambulance chaser. Bell Canyon Cellars But, who knows how honest Total Wine is? I fully intend to utilize and apply my credits towards future purchases. The Crown star, 54, donned a flowing floor length orange frock for the event celebrating film . So most of WTSOs wines are about 87-88-89 on a Parker scale vs 91-92 on a Newman scale, which is consistent with the prices of about $15-25 / bottle. My personal feelings and interactions with Mr. Newman aside, I feel I have benefitted from both WTSO and the PLCB Chairmans Selection Program (which continued even after Mr. Newman was forced outanother story entirely). Not only the prices are great, but the wines are typically shipped free if you hit the minimum required number of bottles for the free shipping (usually any number from 4 . In life you have a choice to buy or not to buy, no one forced you to enter your card # your address and submit an order. I imagine many of you that read this blog buy wine from WTSO and other flash sites. I also tend to shy away from the wines that are only reviewed on the site by Jonathan Newman. The novel is Murakami's first since "Kishidancho Goroshi," or "Killing Commendatore," was released in February 2017. Almaden's Heritage White Zinfandel . Austin Creek Cellars In various years the harvests are so big that wineries have too much wine. I agree completely. We are customers and feel we have gotten fair value for everythings mh we have purchased. If I cant find the wine anywhere else Ill get suspicious about the price, especially as it climbs. Stretto Winery For purposes of example only, Defendants procure wines from Vintage Wine Estates and Underground Wine Company, as well as other bulk producers of wine, all of which provide custom branded or private labeling for Defendants., On other wines, WTSO is alleged to have listed elevated original prices to make it appear as though the wine for sale is more discounted than it actually is. Legal Our previous blog post about Wines 'Til Sold Out explains the case where the Plaintiffs alleged that because certain wines were not sold anywhere for the purported "Original Price," the discount advertised by WTSO was not real, and consumers were not buying wines at a discount after all. Sometimes they new wineries are selling great wine. On the plus side he did a fabulous job in PA. Yeah, he really made the PLCB a profitable and better place, but he may have prevented its demise, which is a net negative, in my opinion. He wrote to the judge two weeks ago, along with his lawyers, to ask if she would reconsider. The repetitious, unknown winery brands which you cite that they offer plus the obscure ratings of Mr. Newman have smacked of the typical phony marketing practices you mention, and they may well justify the lawsuit. However, I know that there are buyers out there that do not follow your advice (and some are in my family!). Thus, at the base of this suit is the difference between the stated Suggested Retail Price and the actual price for the wine being offered by WTSO. I hope it will not affect WTSO too much love the company and will continue buying from them. The bottle costs wines because hes an unknown and his reviews are unaccompanied... 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